LUCAS Camporeale was born first.
"Two minutes older," he smiles, overlooking Ikon Park, alongside twin brother, Ben.
It's a grey, April afternoon in Melbourne. All's quiet at Carlton HQ, and the Camporeale twins, sons of 1995 Blues premiership player, Scott, adhere to the mood.
They're polite and considered when they speak. There's two of them, but not too much of them.
There's also a rhythm in the way they talk and interact. It's not that Ben finishes Lucas' sentences, or Lucas finishes Ben's. But there's almost a level of telepathy between the 17-year-olds.
"We can pick up on things without having to speak at times," Lucas explains.
"We do speak pretty fast so sometimes it's hard to understand what we're saying," Ben chimes in.
"Yeah, that's probably the big one," Lucas retorts. "He speaks quick, and no one can understand him. But I can completely understand."
The Camporeale twins are fraternal, but you could've fooled me. Was it not for Ben's longer hair, they'd be difficult to tell apart. But there are differences.
Ben's a right-footer. Lucas kicks with his left.
The latter may be 120 seconds older, but he's 2cm shorter.
"We're different in our own way," Ben says. "Lucas probably keeps to himself a bit more. I'm probably a bit more chatty, a bit more open in that sense.
"No one really leads. We sort of bounce off each other. We both have our strengths."
***
AS PART of Carlton's Academy, Ben and Lucas are in town from Adelaide for the week.
The pair have long fantasised about emulating their father in the iconic navy blue jumper, and while they're both eligible to land at Carlton as father-son selections, Ben and Lucas know it's not that straightforward.
"I'd lie if I say I don't think about it – being a player at any club – but it would be cool to be a Baggers player," Lucas said.
"It would be a unique opportunity, for both of us to end up here," Ben adds immediately.
"It would be a dream come true. You think about it in terms of dad. In the past couple of years it has become more serious."
"You start to think it could be a reality," Lucas said, almost for them both.
There's an inherent pressure that comes with being the sons of a club champion, but Ben and Lucas are aware of the upside.
"I wouldn't change it," Ben said.
"I love the hype around it. It sort of makes me perform and prove people wrong more than anything."
From the pressure comes support for one another. But they're competitive and ambitious young men who want to realise their dreams.
"Sometimes we clash heads, sometimes we take things from each other," Ben said.
"Sometimes you want to hear it from him, sometimes you don't."
Lucas must sense it's one of those times.
"Living in each other's pockets, we do get under each other's skin at times," he said.
***
GROWING up as a twin was, as Lucas puts it, "unreal".
"We weren't allowed to do a lot of 'markers up' when we were little with dad because it always ended up in a fight," he said.
"It's not a bad thing when it comes to game day because we do have that bit of fight in us. We've tried to tone it down, but we like to push each other and we like to win."
Growing up as a twin, though, has also meant Ben and Lucas have taken on a shared identity.
"It is annoying getting referred to as the twins," Ben said.
"But at the same time, people know you for that. The Camporeale twins. It has its perks."
And as Lucas says: "They're not wrong, we're twins. At the end of the day, you just embrace it. I probably wouldn't be where I am without Ben."
Still, there are times where they get on each other's nerves.
"We are hypocritical," Ben said.
"One of us will say, 'Don't do that' and then the other one will do that. Our bedrooms are near each other so probably not cleaning up is a big one."
Lucas shares the same sentiment.
"Walking past the washing on the stairs - that annoys me. He just walks up the stairs and leaves it there. He'll say I do it as well! Hypocrite!"