CARLTON CEO Cain Liddle was one of the first aboard The Teague Train.
Appointed to the Blues in late 2017, Liddle was forced to replace Brendon Bolton as coach in June this year.
He was soon part of the express ride of caretaker David Teague to that job.
In the latest In The Game with Damian Barrett, Liddle - who played four matches under the coaching of Malcolm Blight and alongside Gary Ablett snr at Geelong in 1994, and who coached Marcus Bontempelli at junior level - goes behind the scenes of those emotionally wrenching late May-early June days when Bolton was sacked.
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He also explains the reasoning behind the club's publicly announced plans for premiership success inside five seasons.
"It's a really tough call, when there are people working as hard as they possibly can and they are really good people, these decisions are tough," Liddle said on In The Game.
L-R: An emotional Brendon Bolton, Carlton president Mark LoGiudice and CEO Cain Liddle. Picture: AFL Photos
"But there comes a time from an organisational dynamic perspective, where you have moved enough to think if we don’t make the move on this we are probably not going to get to where we want to be.
I wanted Brendon to be clear that things were turning, and at the time, you wrestle with it: do you wait to deliver it, or face up to the hard question knowing the individual is not going to be happy to hear it?
"… it's heartbreaking, to have someone who had invested so heavily, worked so hard, committed everything to something, then to have that taken away from them, it is heartbreaking.
"Anyone who says it is not or that it gets easier, probably shouldn't be in the role like I'm in because people are the most important thing, they make your football club.
"People talk about culture, well culture is your people, how your people behave and how they sell your club publicly, and the decisions they make. When you've got a good person, and you have to have that discussion, that is not easy."
Liddle said Bolton was made aware his position was under scrutiny in the lead up to the early June day when he was sacked.
"We spoke the week previously, in my office," Liddle said.
"I wanted Brendon to be clear that things were turning, and at the time, you wrestle with it: do you wait to deliver it, or face up to the hard question knowing the individual is not going to be happy to hear it?" Liddle said.
"I made that choice, we had that conversation and things were frosty that week and then we had that really poor performance against Essendon.
"I rang Brendon on Monday and said we need to have a chat, and we had that chat at (Bolton's manager Tom Petroro) Tom's house."
Liddle arrived at Carlton after helping turn Richmond into a financial powerhouse when working alongside its CEO Brendon Gale.
Similar to the Tigers under Gale's leadership, Liddle and Carlton early this year publicly committed to a pursuit of excellence.
Cain Liddle with Brandon Ellis on Grand Final day, 2017. Picture: AFL Photos
"Stability is critically important in any football club, but stability can give way to inertia very quickly, and it is important you are always assessing where you can get competitive advantage, or at least have two-way thinking," Liddle said.
"… they were really ambitious goals, and I don’t shy away from them. In five years, we want to win premierships (AFL and AFLW), we want 100,000 members, we want average crowds of 50,000, we want to be Australia's sporting employer of choice, we want to get the best people, we want to maintain the best people.
"Will we achieve all of those targets? I hope we do, and we are setting our business up to achieve it. But we have to be focused on something. And I make no apologies for putting that out there.
"… that's our job. We need to create a sustainable football program that gives us that chance. I serve 64,000 (members), and if I tried to look them in the eye and said we are not here to win premierships, I'm not sure they would be happy with that. Why not be honest with that?
"These are high pressure jobs and if you don’t perform, you're out."
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Episode guide
2:08 - Carlton sleeping giants tag 'a badge of honour'
3:33 – Influence on Richmond resurgence
5:08 – Love for Brendon Gale and membership focus
7:34 – No apologies for ambitious aspirations
10:12 – The plan for premierships
11:17 – Do you think the Blues can win the flag in 2020?
12:59 – Willingness to trade first-round draft pick
13:30 – Stephen Coniglio, Jack Martin and Tom Papley: Who have Carlton spoken to?
15:21 – 'How were we so stupid to not see this?' The impact of AFLW
17:26 – Brendon Bolton sacking and the reasons for the decision
18:35 – 'It's heartbreaking': Telling Bolton it was over
21:37 – Stability versus constant assessment
23:06 – Chris Judd 'training wheels' reference
24:20 – The 'Teague Train' momentum
28:00 – Alastair Clarkson approach to coach
30:19 – 'Ruffling feathers' in the football industry
31:36 – Playing at the highest level with Gary Ablett snr
33:38 – Fighting Ablett in the ring
34:48 – Taking on Tony Modra in the 'cauldron' of noise
35:47 – 'Like being thrown the keys to a Maserati': Coaching future stars
37:36 – Making errors and learning to manage staff
39:59 – Restoring Carlton to its former glory
