TOM Harley. Two-time premiership captain of Geelong, current CEO of Sydney.

Legacy shaper at both clubs, which boast legacies the envy of the entire competition, and which this Saturday will contest the 2022 Toyota AFL Grand Final.

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Reluctantly given his always modest, forever humble ways, Harley refuses to engage in any talk that places him centrally in the Cats and Swans storylines.

"I am only a role player," he tells AFL.com.au. "Whenever we play Geelong and I get asked about both clubs, I do get uncomfortable talking about my connection. In saying that, I absolutely do understand there may be interest. I'm lucky to have had some great experiences."

In the mid-2000s transitioning of Geelong Football Club from an underperforming, underwhelming, financially vulnerable entity into an AFL industry-leading one, Harley became as crucial as any individual.

Emerging seemingly out of nowhere as a unanimous choice as captain amid a playing group stocked with bigger names and monstrously bigger personalities after one of the most rigorous internal reviews ever undertaken by a club, Harley led the Cats to the 44-year premiership drought-breaking 2007 premiership, the losing 2008 Grand Final and the 2009 flag. Then he retired, knowing he had nothing left to offer on a football field.

In the mid-2010s consolidation of the Sydney Swans Football Club as arguably the country's most recognisable sports brand, Harley, this time off the field, has become as important to that successful surge as John Longmire, Lance Franklin, Josh Kennedy, Andrew Pridham and Isaac Heeney. Initially as football operations manager from 2014, CEO since 2019.

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While Harley won't have it, his imprint on the two Grand Final clubs during the past 24 seasons is indelible. He enforced seemingly-forever-defining behavioural change at Geelong in 1999-2009, particularly in his final three years as captain. At the Swans he has managed to keep their legacy "on the rails".

"I'd be lying if I hadn't thought about it (being a former captain of one the 2022 Grand Final teams and currently CEO of the other), but at the same time when thinking about it, I have always regarded myself as a role player in whatever job I have, and clearly invested in that," Harley said.

"My reflection has been on the difference of being a player with being a non-player, and genuinely feeling fortunate to have been involved in the AFL environment for a couple of decades now. It's not lost on me that my journey has involved two unbelievably good football clubs, and regardless of what the future holds, I can look back fondly on that."

In Geelong and Sydney, there are differences and similarities and everything in between. One is a provincial team, albeit in an Australian football heartland state, but 80km from its city base. The other resides in the country's biggest city, which is still dominated by another football code, but has a very special soft spot in the place of its origins, in South Melbourne.

Both, in an era which is designed to give all combatants a fair chance to share success, have actually hogged success. Saturday will be the Cats' sixth Grand Final since 2007, and the Swans' sixth Grand Final since 2005.

Of the similarities, Harley said: "There is no secret recipe to success in anything, it ultimately comes down to people, and there are plenty of really good people at both of these football clubs who actually enjoy getting into the trenches and working with each other, and being inquisitive and curious about what the future may hold."

Successful sportspeople and clubs forever talk about people, values, respect. Unsuccessful sportspeople and clubs also speak of the same things. The two groups are often separated by history defining victories.

Without winning, aspirations for success are merely words. Harley says nothing meaningful can ever be achieved without making the pursuit of winning a non-negotiable component to all operations.

"It takes extraordinary efforts to win, and I haven't seen anyone in this game who hasn't had an extraordinary desire to win," he said. "That doesn't mean it is going to manifest itself in rage and aggression. It can be a steely determination. But you do need to have that deep in your bones, the unwavering, unrelenting competitive spirit to win. The reality is not everyone gets to do it.

"At the core of me is someone who loves to compete, and loves to win. And that is a strange feeling as an administrator, because the way that presents is very different to a senior coach and player. But I am unashamedly a competitor and I want to be part of successful organisations."

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Harley took over as Swans CEO from Andrew Ireland, another legacy shaper at multiple clubs (Ireland was CEO during premierships at Brisbane and Sydney).

"When I transitioned into this role, it was hardly a renovator's delight," Harley said. "I have been extremely fortunate to come into a football club with extremely sound foundations, and built off great leaders in Richard Colless, Andrew Pridham, Andrew Ireland, Paul Roos, John Longmire, and then you've got the playing group as well, and it was a great privilege to become part of it.

"But it was to keep it on the rails, as it has been a good football club for a long period of time."

Everyone who has got to experience the Bloods Culture from within explains it in slightly different ways. Harley's version is this: "It is what you stand for, and what you do, and if I was to have a crack at defining the specifics to us, it is doing the right thing at the right time and for the right reason. And coming into this organisation, you are a custodian of that environment. The induction of the players is the first part and then the elevation of players to the leadership roles which can champion the culture and move it forward.

"It goes back, probably back to 2003 when Paul Roos started as coach and with Stuey Maxfield as captain, and that baton has been passed on and on, and it is an attitude that has been embraced totally throughout the club."

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At Geelong, Harley's leadership was fully tested even before he got to lead his teammates out for the first game of 2007. It came in the form of needing to make a stand against Stevie Johnson, a player who was to become one of the club's all-time greats, but who in the off-season between 2006 and 2007, had again found his professionalism being questioned.

"My personal view is you never view those moments as watershed moments, nor moments to draw a line in the sand, you treat each situation on its merits, and at the core of each situation is a person," Harley said.

"And specifically linking this back to your question with Stevie, we saw great potential in Stevie, someone crucial to us, and one of the things I was most proud of, and Steve went on to achieve some extraordinary things, and at the core of all the decisions made at the time was Steve as a person, and from two mates, we could have fractured and gone our different ways.

"And I caught up with Steve, his wife Erin and the kids just the other day and to be able to do that after a challenging, a potentially confronting, potentially destructive series of conversations and events is something I am really proud of. Let's be clear on what we need to do, on where we need to go, but be equally clear on there being a person invariably at the centre of all of it."

Harley was drafted to Port Adelaide in 1996, was on the Power list for two years, played one game in 1998 before a further 197 matches at Geelong.

"Those 13 years were clearly formative years, and there were some incredible on-field highs, and equally some unbelievable learnings around life," Harley said.

"This is the transferrable part – you need to be honest with yourself with where you are at, and honest particularly around what you stand for and the type of team you want to project as."

Asked what was most pertinent to how a club should be judged, Harley said: "It is a pretty easy assessment – what are the other 17 teams saying about us at any point in time?"

Here's a crack at an answer that at least a dozen clubs, and probably more, would offer: "We would give anything to be the Sydney Swans or Geelong."