"ARE YOU a coach or a footy manager?" That was the crux of Greg Swann's first call to Chris Fagan when the Brisbane CEO was scouring the land, searching for the best replacement for Justin Leppitsch in the middle of 2016. 

Fagan was 55 at the time and had spent two seasons as Hawthorn's head of football after spending his first six years at Waverley Park as head of coaching, following a decade at Melbourne where he rose from reserves coach to assistant coach to footy boss. 

But despite shifting from a coach to general manager of football operations at the back end of his time at the Demons and Hawks, the Tasmanian has always been – and always will be – a coach at his core. That's what Swann was calling to check when he picked up the phone to Fagan amid another nightmare season in Queensland. 

Fast forward nearly seven years from that initial conversation and Fagan has been an inspired decision, just like Swann was when AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan implored him to remain in the AFL industry and head north to resuscitate a struggling club in Brisbane, at a time when the veteran administrator was contemplating a move away from club land after eight years as Carlton CEO following seven years in the same role at Collingwood.  

Now aged 62, Fagan is the only current senior coach who didn't play at the highest level, although he was a star in Tasmania and is in that state's hall of fame. This comes in stark contrast to other sports around the world that have embraced coaches who trekked similar paths to Fagan. 

Six-time Super Bowl-winning head coach Bill Belichick never played in the NFL. Five-time NBA champion head coach Gregg Popovich never played in the NBA. And there are many more examples of big-time coaches in America who didn't play professional sports. 

Bigger sports on the global stage have realised that a playing CV counts for little in the coaches' box. If you can coach, you can coach. 

The AFL has taken longer to embrace a pathway that doesn't inhibit some coaches' progress, but clubs' attitudes are now shifting. If you take a closer look at the football departments across the 18 clubs, you will find 24 assistant or development coaches across the AFL – plus more analysts and coaches involved in the W programs – who have never played at the highest level. 

The shift is happening, just below the surface.

"There are a lot more blokes in AFL footy that haven't had that traditional background compared to when I started. I was reasonably rare when Neale Daniher gave me a job back in 1998. Coaching staffs then were three people, so things have changed a fair bit and it has evolved a fair bit which has allowed people from non-traditional backgrounds to get more opportunities," Fagan told AFL.com.au. 

"I think clubs are seeing the benefits of people who are well qualified to be coaches as opposed to just being good players. That's not to say one way or the other is the right way, but it certainly would be fair to say that just because you're a good player doesn't mean you're going to be a good coach."

Collingwood's head of coaching, Brendon Bolton, is the best known name on the aforementioned list of 24 – and the only one with senior coaching experience – but he's far from the only one with extensive experience in the AFL system. 

Craig Jennings initially joined Greater Western Sydney on a part-time basis after the 2021 season and had a nine-month contract for 2022 by Christmas, before being retained to join Adam Kingsley's program in a sign of what he has brought to the club, following 20 years involved in the AFL at Melbourne, Essendon and the Western Bulldogs. 

Essendon forwards coach Dale Tapping joined the Bombers at the end of 2021 after a five-year stint at Brisbane and five-year run at Collingwood, following coaching gigs with Coates Talent League sides Sandringham Dragons and Western Jets, after coaching Old Brighton and Old Scotch in the VAFA. 

Damian Carroll is widely regarded as one of the best development coaches in the game and is Ross Lyon's head of development and learning at St Kilda. Since hanging up his boots after a decorated career for Springvale in the VFL, Carroll has coached at Gippsland Power, Box Hill, Hawthorn, Collingwood and now the Saints. 

The Sandringham Dragons factory in Melbourne's bayside isn't just producing players; it has started developing coaches in recent times, with Gold Coast poaching Jackson Kornberg at the end of 2021 as VFL coach and now development coach. Greater Western Sydney added Wayne Cripps to its coaching panel at the start of the pre-season after his one season as head coach of the Dragons, following an assistant coaching role at the Oakleigh Chargers. 

When Luke Beveridge landed the top gig at the Western Bulldogs he brought Jamie Maddocks with him to work as a development coach and opposition analyst, after assistant coaching roles at the Oakleigh Chargers and Dandenong Stingrays. Maddocks played in the famous VAFA three-peat under Beveridge, where St Bede's Mentone won C Section, B Section and then A Section premierships in consecutive seasons from 2006-08. Now Maddocks is the head of development at the Whitten Oval. 

Brisbane's strategy coach Mark Stone had nearly two decades of AFL experience at Fremantle, Sydney and West Coast before being plucked from Glenelg at the end of 2020 to join Fagan's coaching panel. It should come as no surprise that the Lions have four coaches, including Fagan, who haven't played AFL. 

"Coaching is just like teaching, really, it's just that your classroom is full of footballers and you've got it all year round and you look after their development not just as footballers but as people. That is fundamentally what you do as a schoolteacher, and I think a lot of them might have that background," Fagan said.

"Not all, but quite a few do. I think there is a recognition inside clubs that having good diversity in your group of guys that have and haven't played AFL, people with different skillsets (makes for a) more balanced coaching group. I like to have people from different backgrounds in my group, that's for sure."

Like Fagan, Bolton is a product of a progressive environment at Hawthorn where four-time premiership coach Alastair Clarkson embraced those with a teaching background – current GM Rob McCartney was a primary school principal when he was offered a development role at the club – as well as left-field options like David Rath, who joined the club as a highly rated biomechanist and strategist, and is now working in rugby union for Eddie Jones at the Wallabies. 

Bolton was a star in the Tasmanian Football League before becoming a playing coach for North Hobart at just 24. After a stint as coach of the Tasmanian Devils in the VFL, Bolton moved to Melbourne to coach Box Hill at 30 and was promoted to Hawthorn's coaching team two years later, before replacing Mick Malthouse as senior coach of Carlton ahead of the 2016 season. 

The opportunity at Princes Park ended after 77 games at the helm, but Bolton has remained heavily involved in coaching since then, returning to Hawthorn at first before joining new Collingwood coach Craig McRae at the end of the 2021 season. 

Those inside the AIA Centre believe Bolton is the glue that sticks the football department together. Even those in the administration side of the building are trying to absorb some of the virtues the veteran coach has to offer. 

Bolton believes we will see more coaches who didn't play the game at the highest level earn a shot as a senior coach in the not too distant future, but the success of Collingwood under McRae has shown that the senior coach needs a dedicated and diverse team beneath him to succeed, something the Magpies coach has referred to over the journey. 

"Where people are starting to understand is the success of any team is about the inter-relationships of all those working for that direction. We've got Justin Leppitsch, myself, Scott Selwood, Hayden Skipworth, Craig McRae – all very different but working for the same goal. The success on the oval is how we operate and how all the different departments operate," Bolton tells AFL.com.au inside the boardroom at the Glasshouse. 

"I think what we are starting to understand is it's not about the one individual and any individual is not perfect; it is about that individual being able to work to their strengths and those around them being able to support their deficiencies. Then you don't look at the individual so much, you look at the team of coaches. The business is that big now that it's not about the individual anymore and once we understand that, anything is possible."

Bolton has used his real-world experience as an advantage in the AFL. He didn't enter a full-time AFL environment until he was 32, and by that point of his life, he had coached a handful of his own teams and worked as a school teacher in Tasmania, just like Fagan had before he moved to the Demons. 

"It doesn't mean that you are any broader than anyone else, and because you've played football you've been narrow, but lived and life experiences help you with your teaching because you've got stories to use. Stories and lived experiences allow you to connect your content. Story tellers are usually great teachers," he said. 

"The way you think determines how you feel; how you feel determines how you act or play. Sometimes telling a story about someone changing their thoughts to change their feelings to change the way they are playing can be as useful or as important as talking to them about what they can do differently on the ground. You are dealing then with the heart and mind."

You can't sit and listen to Bolton without wanting to know more about his experiences, without wanting to hear an example of when this has worked. And within a handful of seconds, the now 44-year-old has a memory from 15 years ago that is still vivid. 

"I can remember a particular premiership player who had been dropped to Box Hill and he was frustrated with Clarko. He was thinking 'this is not fair', and his feelings were anger and I was worried he wasn't going to perform. Knowing the simple philosophy (of) 'change your thinking, change your feelings, change your action', I said to him, 'Do you know how many non-listed players have played with a premiership player? Not one of them'," Bolton recalled. 

"He just said, 'Wow'. I said, 'What do you think they are going to do when you come to training? What do you think they will do at a huddle when you talk? What do you think they will do when you stay around after the game and talk to them? What a great leadership opportunity for you'. All of sudden he felt valued, felt like he could make a difference, he wasn't as frustrated, he was more determined, he then played well and got back in the AFL team the week later. That is a lived experience of changing thoughts, feelings and actions."

Two development coaches on the rise inside club land – Marco Bello at Adelaide and Torin Baker at Carlton – both spent time at Hawthorn and Box Hill, further highlighting the impact of that alignment. Bello is now head of development at West Lakes, while Baker is a development coach at Princes Park, alongside Aaron Greaves who followed Michael Voss across from Port Adelaide as the Blues' coaching and innovation manager. 

After widespread change inside the football department at Giants HQ in 2022, Jennings is one of the few remaining faces. He started with Leon Cameron, remained under Mark McVeigh and is now part of Adam Kingsley's team as a new era for Greater Western Sydney unfolds. 

Jennings is a student of the game and a teacher to those trying to play it at the highest level. David Parkin and Clarkson preached about the value of having a teaching background, so Jennings went and studied a teaching degree and then a master of management in sports management, travelling around the world along the way to glean as much information as possible from inside elite sporting environments, other businesses and universities – he has presented at Stanford University – to bring back to what he is doing in the AFL. 

After spending the first decade of his time in the AFL as an analyst, Jennings' longevity in the game has helped paved the way for the likes of Luke Kelly – who started as an analyst at the Western Bulldogs and then Greater Western Sydney and has now progressed to be a development coach at Port Adelaide – to build a career in an environment where it is difficult to be taken seriously at the start without a playing CV. 

"If you haven't played, it is harder to get an opportunity, but people pretty quickly work out if you're a good coach and if you're worth listening to and that's where longevity comes in," Jennings explained from Sydney on a recent Zoom call.  

"A really clear example of that is your first week (coaching) in a footy club – the guys that have played 300 games get a really good opportunity. If they are great at coaching that's even better. But if they are not great at coaching and teaching, they will be out of the system.

"What players want to know is if you care about them and you are invested. They can pretty quickly work out within a week if you know your stuff or not and then it's about building authentic and genuine relationships. The playing career gives you a one-week window where automatically you get an opportunity, but after that it is about can you actually coach effectively? 

"When you look around a footy club now, people don't talk about if you've played or not. If you think about it logically, our players are so young if they are under 23, the guys that coached them, even if they had great careers, the young guys probably don't even know if they had a great career or not."

Those who sit in on Jennings' presentations at Greater Western Sydney rave about them. They are punchy and different, just like Jennings, who has always lived Simon Goodwin's philosophy of never being boring. Even Melbourne and Adelaide great Bernie Vince conceded when he retired that he would miss Jennings' meetings.

"Today the skillset you need as a coach, it doesn't matter if you've played or not played. If you think about this from a job perspective, you need to design drills and you don't need to have played AFL to design an AFL drill," Jennings said. 

"You're not going to be a 10 out of 10 in everything and that's why you have coaching teams. (In) drill design some coaches will be better than others. You might need to be really good at strategy. I made sure that I was really strong in that area. You need match-day coaching skills and not everyone is good in that area. I invested in that part of my coaching. 

"If you've played the game you might have a great understanding of the game, but you might not be great at educating, presenting and teaching which is the majority of the week. You are teaching in a classroom setting. Being good with analytics and numbers because we get thrown those all day long. 

"If you think of all those skills that have been valid today for a coach, there isn't a coach that is 10 out of 10 in all of them. How do you get strong in three or four of those so then you're employable? That's why if you go through all those, you don't need to have played the game like you did 25 years ago. Coaching and playing are different skillsets."

Jennings is having an impact on how the young list at Greater Western Sydney learns the game, but he hasn't stopped adding things to his own game. Like other coaches at the Giants, Jennings has been spending his day off inside NRL club Canterbury Bulldogs observing, providing feedback, never not learning. 

When Fagan first responded to Swann in 2016, he said he was a footy manager at the moment but he always wanted to be a coach. Once Fagan realised the Lions CEO was serious, he went through the process. And the rest is history. Brisbane has played finals for the past four years and could go all the way this year. 

While the AFL landscape waits for the next Fagan or Bolton to emerge, there are plenty building just below the surface. You just need to start paying attention.

AFL coaches who haven't played at AFL level

Adelaide: Marco Bello (head of development), Michael Godden (SANFL & development coach)
Brisbane: Chris Fagan (senior coach), Murray Davis (forwards coach), Mark Stone (strategy coach), Scott Borlace (head of development)
Carlton: Torin Baker (development coach), Aaron Greaves (coaching & innovation manager)
Collingwood: Brendon Bolton (director of coaching & backline)
Essendon: Dale Tapping (forwards coach), Cam Roberts (head of development)
Fremantle: Adam Read (development coach)
Geelong: Mark Corrigan (VFL coach)
Gold Coast: Tate Kaesler (defence coach), Jackson Kornberg (development coach)
GWS: Craig Jennings (offence coach), Wayne Cripps (VFL & development coach)
Hawthorn: Zane Littlejohn (VFL & development coach)
Melbourne: Taylor Whitford (VFL & development coach)
Port Adelaide: Luke Kelly (development coach)
St Kilda: Damian Carroll (head of development and learning)
Sydney: Damian Truslove (VFL and development coach)
Western Bulldogs: Jamie Maddocks (head of development), Stewart Edge (VFL coach), Marc Webb (stoppages coach)