BEST show in town

Peter Ryan, AFL Record writer: 'Buddy' Franklin and Cyril Rioli kicked 14 goals between them on Saturday to make it 87 for the season. Are they the best tall-small forward line duo ever?

Ben Collins, AFL Record writer: Massive overreaction. For starters, they were playing against a side that has been nothing short of pathetic in recent weeks. This question is just another example of the compulsion to label all things modern as the best of all time. Even the most cursory research will tell you that Buddy and Cyril aren't even the best tall-small combo in their own club's history, let alone the competition's. I'll see your Franklin and raise you Peter Hudson. And ditto regarding Rioli and Leigh Matthews. In 1977, Hudson's full-time comeback to league footy after knee injuries and several years in his native Tasmania, he kicked 110, while the great man 'Lethal', the No.1 rover, slotted 91 of his own while changing out of a forward pocket. That's 201 between them. No contest.

Nick Bowen, AFL Record writer: Big call, Pete. But off the top of my head it's hard to think of any better twosome. Then again, Hawthorn's forward line in 1985 had Leigh Matthews as the small and Dermie (Dermott Brereton) and (Jason) Dunstall as the key forwards. Of the three though, only Dermie was at his peak.

Michael Lovett, AFL Record writer: As pure tall-small forwards go, they probably are. I saw Michael Roach and Kevin Bartlett create plenty of havoc for the Tigers and Peter Hudson and Leigh Matthews likewise for the Hawks. But KB and Lethal probably spent more time on the ball, so happy to go with Cyril and Buddy.

Ashley Browne, afl.com.au writer: One of the best. You would think John Coleman and Bill Hutchison would have worked well together in '52 and '53 when Hutchison won two Brownlows. Not sure they would have been more entertaining. Another Essendon combination that really clicked for a time was Matty Lloyd and Darren 'Boris' Bewick.

Callum Twomey, AFL Record writer: When he played with Coleman, Hutchison never kicked 40 or more goals in a season. But Coleman was kicking ton after ton so they were still able to create a pretty ominous duo. And I challenge you on the more entertaining bit, Ash. I reckon Coleman might have had as many tricks as Buddy and Cyril combined.

Mark Macgugan, afl.com.au writer: Don't forget Scotty Cummings and Phil Matera. Kicked 146 between them in 1999.

Collins: From what the old fellas say, Coleman would have been far more entertaining. I must say I'd much rather watch a bloke stand on guys' heads rather than beat them with blinding pace. But hey, I'm splitting hairs, aren't I?

Ryan: Cummings and Matera are much underrated and they played a similar marking/crumbing/forward-pressure combination to Buddy/Rioli (Buddy is obviously more dangerous at ground level than Cummings was). Phil Matera inspired many a modern small forward but is often overlooked. You know Collingwood's Ron Todd and Des Fothergill kicked 185 goals in 1938 and 172 goals in 1939. I don't reckon many defenders would have slept too well before heading to Victoria Park in those days. Bartlett and Roach kicked 196 between them in 1980. On Saturday I sat at ground level behind the goals at the Punt Road end for a quarter just to watch Franklin and Rioli play up close. They were brilliant. So decisive and I reckon they push each other to greater heights. The fear in their opponent's faces looked very real.

The defender's blues

Ryan: How does Carlton manage Buddy and Cyril this week?

Bowen: Stop the ball getting down to Hawthorn's forward line, or at least make sure it comes down slowly.

Browne: Buddy needs one opponent when he plays close to goal and another to run with him when he gets up the ground. That will be the challenge for the Blues on Friday night. (Michael) Jamison in his first game back from two months with a knee injury won't have the tank. Not sure who the Blues have to run with Cyril in this form.

Lovett: Don't give them space, try to get Buddy up the ground and don't over-commit when trying to tackle Cyril. Sounds simple doesn't it?

Collins: The old story: dominate the midfield and have the ball in your own forward half 60 per cent of the time.

Howard Kotton, AFL Record writer: I'd say (Dennis) Armfield might be a chance to go with Rioli. He did a great job on (Stephen) Hill on Saturday and can play deep defence when Cyril goes forward. Blues must make sure they apply the same sort of defensive pressure they did last week to try to expose any cracks in the Hawthorn backline.

Macgugan: What about putting (Chris) Yarran on Cyril and trying to hurt him the other way?

Ryan: Can you corral Cyril a la Ablett? He's too quick isn't he? The most impressive thing with Cyril and Franklin is you can't hurt them on the counterattack and their defensive efforts are huge. Buddy was making spoils on the wing in the last quarter Saturday. Mitchell nearly hugged him after one effort from Buddy late in the game.

Bowen: They need to pressure the ball carrier. The Hawks move the ball with precise short kicks, so if you need to pressure them, make them miss targets and force them as much as possible to kick long. The Blues will back themselves to win the midfield battle too.

Collins: Ironically, in 2003 one of the best tall-small combos was Chris Tarrant and Leon Davis. Much loved and maligned by their often-frustrated fans when they played in attack, they're now among the Pies' most reliable players. Go figure.

Ryan: Maybe that will be Buddy and Cyril in 2024, playing in defence for the Hawks.

Macgugan: Doubtful.

Lovett: Million to one.

Ryan: I reckon Mark's idea with Yarran is good, although Cyril is such a good chase and tackle player that he might break Yarran down. Armfield has the heart and the temperant but I'm not sure he has the crumbing potential. Perhaps that is where Yarran cuts in. I'm thinking the Blues play one spare and rotate on and off Cyril. And hope for good luck.

Bowen: If Waite comes back in, the Blues also have the capacity to stretch the Hawks' backline. As good as Josh Gibson's been this year, he's still not the sort of player Denis Pagan was talking about when he said you need gorillas to play on gorillas.

Ryan: Thomas Murphy seems to be taking up the tight defensive spot with Gibson freed up as he uses the ball so well and spoils like few others. It's almost an attacking weapon. 

Collins: Let's not get carried away with what the Hawks did to Port, who produced yet another shambolic effort. It's hard to gauge a team's form against such an ordinary side. The Blues have the midfield to potentially starve Buddy and Cyril. They won't kick 14 this week.

Ryan: Yep, last night Geelong looked tired from kicking so many goals in the previous fortnight.

Finding a ruckman

Ryan: With Matthew Leuenberger starring five years after being drafted and each of the top four teams last year having recruited their ruckman, is it too big a price to pay to use a first-round draft pick on a ruckman?

Macgugan: I'm sure West Coast is reasonably happy with its decision to use a first-round pick on Nic Nat.

Collins: Yes, unless it's a Kreuzer, who was mature enough mentally and physically, and smart enough, to come straight in. I've often thought there needs to be a nursery for ruckman because the way it works at the moment - well, it doesn't seem to work. You pick up a junior ruck star, he shows bugger-all for three or four years, so after losing all patience and putting all this work into him, you trade him and another club gets all the fruits of your labour.

Twomey: That seemed to be the theory at the Sydney Swans under Paul Roos, didn't it? The Swans recruited ruckmen from other clubs after they had already had that grounding elsewhere. Jolly, Mumford, Seaby come to mind. But Ben McEvoy at the Saints has only taken three years. You can wait that long. When it gets to a four-five year wait that's when it can seem a little costly.

Browne: Big blokes take time. That's why drafting and list management has evolved into such an important sub-sphere of the game. You want your no.1 pick to make an impact in the first year or perhaps the second, but the rucks can and do take longer. NicNat is a freak, but he backs up Dean Cox.

Lovett: Good point Peter, but it depends on the player. Leuenberger has had some injury issues but is now sound and playing great footy. Zac Smith would have been a top 10 pick if the Suns didn't have access to him as a 17-year-old and he's come in and looked the part straight away. My man Billy Longer from the Northern Knights will go in the top 10 this year and he should be right to go from day one. The only issue for these young big guys is their workload and keeping them fresh for 22 games.

Bowen: Let's get one thing straight up front - Leuenberger has been very solid this year so the Lions would be very comfortable they picked him at No. 4 in the '06 draft. Having said that, I like the approach Paul Roos used to take with ruckmen - rookie list them or throw big bucks at an established player at another club. The gap between junior footy and senior footy is particularly big for the big guys. Guys like Josh Fraser and David Hale obviously dominated under-age comps but never really developed the big strong bodies to do so in the AFL. You have a much better idea which ruckmen can do that three or four years into their AFL careers.

Ryan: Max Bailey seems to have been worth the wait. Exceptional again on Saturday and plays with great heart. Could it be an argument for a mid-season draft?

Browne: Could be. If the Tigers could have traded or drafted a big man mid-season they might still be in contention. Mark Blake might have finally played that 100th game. He's been item no.1 on the weekly AFL Media newslist all year!

Collins: Mid-season draft sounds intriguing but messy. Doesn't it become quite sensitive considering there's all of the intellectual property/secrets invested into each game plan?

Coach of the year

Ryan: Coach of the year candidates everywhere with veteran Mick Malthouse at top of game, Alastair Clarkson reinventing the Hawks, first-year coaches Chris Scott and James Hird getting the best out of their teams, Brett Ratten improving all the time and the back from the grave John Worsfold? Who is coach of the year and why? How do you assess it?

Lovett: 'Woosha' for me. The Eagles were terrible last year and not given a chance by too many this year. Like the way they play tempo footy and their ability to run and carry has been outstanding. They will do some damage in September.

Browne: Worsfold by the length of the Ascot straight. Got some cattle back, but rolled the dice, changed the gameplan and the results have been spectacular.

Macgugan: Happy for the premiership coach to be considered the coach of the year.

Bowen: Clarkson for mine. One, he's come up with a new short-kicking game plan that's worked well. Two, he's been able to keep the Hawks together despite injuries to their best two key defenders and their second most important key position player in Roughy. All with the pressure of being in the final year of his contract. Phenomenal effort. But more than ever now we should be assessing coaching panels rather than the coach.

Kotton: I agree, Mick and Ash, Woosha has done a magnificent job to regenerate that list since the loss of Judd, Cousins, Fletcher and co.

Collins: I think Worsfold easily, considering he's lifted the bottom side, followed by Clarkson whose side appears a realistic premiership chance despite all the injury horrors, with Brett Ratten a distant third as he was/is a man under pressure who has also got his team to respond.

Twomey: Make that five for Worsfold. Has a bit of the Lions in 1999 about it, after they rose from the wooden spoon in 1998 to finish third in Leigh Matthews' first year in charge. Probably won't back it up with three consecutive flags, but they will be on the cusp for a few years.

Collins: There are also arguments for Malthouse and C. Scott.

Ryan: It's interesting because I reckon six or seven coaches could realistically be considered successes already. Even Brad Scott and Mark Harvey and John Longmire have coached very well looking on from the outside and Michael Voss's teams have been competitive every week. From hereon in coaches are in the lap of the gods a bit. The coaches have named their award after Allan Jeans, which is a great idea. Should be interesting to see how they see it when they vote. If the Pies win the flag, Mick's effort is very good considering the Davis to defence, new players introduced, while Chris Scott has shown he is a long-term coach. My pick is Clarkson though. Redeveloping the game and the hunger and introduced new players.

Macgugan: All very hard on Malthouse. Can't see how the others are better than him. His team is top of the ladder, playing great footy week in, week out, largely thanks to the gamestyle that he's developed.

Bickley's effort

Ryan: While on coaching, why does Adelaide look better in the last three weeks?

Lovett: Same old story, isn't it with the Crows? New coach comes in, everyone's on notice and suddenly they are up and about. They had Geelong on the ropes early yesterday and won some hard, contested footy. The talent has always been there so I see this as a great opportunity ... just depends whether they good the wise old owl or stick with someone like Mark Bickley.

Ryan: I don't reckon the Crows go a wise old owl, just a quality assistant coach to take them forward. I think a club with Adelaide's resources should and will make a very informed decision about who the next coach is, and will be aiming for a long term appointment. Bickley might be the man but these results are only one part of the equation.

Kotton: I think the Crows have stepped up their tackling pressure and intensity. The younger players such as Rory Sloane seem to have responded to Bickley's methods.

Bowen: The Bulldogs face a big decision with Rodney Eade over the coming weeks. Can they learn anything from Woosha's effort to turn things around at West Coast?

Ryan: Yes, clubs need to hold their nerve. Any rebuild will happen much quicker under Eade and he has the capacity to create a premiership team.

Browne: If the Dogs reappoint Rocket, it would need to be for three years, the same length of time they would give a new coach, because that's the time it will take to rebuild. But I reckon by casting doubt on his future in the post-match presser the other night, he might just see the writing on the wall.

The Bombers' dilemma

Ryan: Should Essendon consider resting players as they have a tough trip to play West Coast followed by Port Adelaide and then a bye and need just one win to make it? Who would Essendon like to play in week one of the finals?

Lovett: I reckon the Bombers would be happy to play either the Swans or St Kilda. They match up well against both.

Bowen: I don' t think Essendon should rest players that aren't injured. Given they've got the bye in round 24, they'd risk sending players in underdone. Just ask Kevin Sheedy about the 1990 finals series.

Collins: It would be un-Australian for Essendon to rest players and basically surrender the game to the Eagles. They should try their guts out against the Eagles and if they lose, so be it. If they win, they make the finals a week earlier. And if they can't beat Port, regardless of what happens against the Eagles, they don't deserve to be there anyway.

Browne: Essendon would like to play St Kilda, who they've beaten the last three times they've played. Interesting dilemma for the AFL: if there are four finals in Melbourne the first week, which one gets played at Etihad? Carlton's because it is their home ground, or potentially St Kilda-Essendon because they're co-tenants.

Twomey: I think the Bombers would be contemplating resting Michael Hurley and Heath Hocking, two players who are playing through a bit of pain with foot injuries. The road trip to Perth isn't overly important in the scheme of their year if they can come back and beat Port Adelaide at Etihad, which shouldn't be too difficult.

Bowen: Agree, the Bombers would love to take on the Saints. They match up so well against them and would back themselves to run them off their legs.

Ryan: Horses for courses. Whatever team they take they will try their guts out. The old General, General Soreness has been a bit of a problem all year. Unbelievably Melbourne could still make the finals.

Twomey: It wouldn't be un-Australian, Ben, just smart management. Why risk your top-liners in a game that it is pretty unlikely to win? The Bombers play well against Carlton and St Kilda and would enter either game with a lot of confidence.

Collins: Young Cal, I'll have you know I was Australian for 15 years before you were spat out into this fine land of ours. But fair enough, 'un-Australian' was probably a bit strong.

Ryan: Sounds like we're dipping into the rhetoric kitbag so time to go. Can't wait for last seven weeks of the season with so many good players and good teams going around in the finals.

The views in this article are those of the authors and not necessarily those of the AFL or its clubs